[c350ia] [Fwd: battery length]
KSE
kse@san.rr.com
Thu, 5 Jun 2008 17:40:03 -0700
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Andy,
Apparently the insulation in the refrigerator got way better between our =
hull #169 and your hull #231. There is no where in our system that the =
insulation is close to 3" our is closer to 1.5". Here in Southern =
California we experienced about a 90/10 run/off cycle when the boat was =
new. After sealing up the gaps under the counter, adding additional =
insulation under the counter and in the freezer compartment, and ducting =
the hot air away from the compressor we got that down a little bit to =
more like 75/25. Of course that's with the freezer running at about 0F =
and the Fridge at about 40F. I guess if you didn't want to keep it as =
cold it wouldn't use as much power.
We ended up adding additional House Bank Ah's as well as a starting =
battery. We now have 720Ah in the house bank and can go 2 days without =
charging and draw down to 60%. The boss likes to live in comfort, so =
the load includes microwave, coffee pot, TV, computer, stereo and =
lights. We can now live like in a condo...I don't have to nag about =
turning things off... and everyone is happier.
With regards to charging with the engine, I assume that you have =
upgraded to a higher output alternator with a smart charge controller. =
Ours is stock, and doesn't have much effective capacity...maybe about =
35-40Amps effective at 1500 RPM. We use a Honda eu2000 which we run =
about 4hrs a day (starting on day 3) when on the hook. I'm jealous that =
your boat is so much more efficient. If we spent more than our one two =
week extended trip per year on the hook I would get very interested in =
the solar panel idea quickly.
Mike Emery
#169
----- Original Message -----=20
From: Andy Sumberg=20
To: tjr3c@comcast.net ; skip7@verizon.net ; c350ia@catalina350.net=20
Sent: Thursday, June 05, 2008 4:37 PM
Subject: RE: [c350ia] [Fwd: battery length]
Folks,
I look at the battery time like this. I may be a little off on my =
assumptions.
The owners manual for the refrigerator states ". figure approximately =
5 amps when running. The average draw, as the ColdMachine cycles on and =
off, is 1.8 to 2.4 amps for most 4 to 8 cubic ft iceboxes with average =
(3 inch plus) rigid polyurethane foam insulation."=20
Figure each of our house batteries are 150Ah (I don't remember exactly =
what they are). Generally you don't want to draw down a house battery =
below 50%. Therefore one battery could easily deliver 75Ah which would =
run the refrigerator (cycling on and off at 50%) for=20
=20
75 Amp Hours/ 2.5 Amps =3D 30 hours
=20
Few items draw as much as the refrigerator (excluding AC which should =
not be used away from shore power), but you would still have to adjust =
some, particularly for lights. If you ran the house for 12 hours on one =
battery and then ran it for another 12 hours on the other battery and =
then ran the engine once every 24 hours for an hour or two, you should =
be ok.
=20
One of the first modifications I made to my boat was to put in a =
separate dedicated engine start battery. This way, no matter how much I =
draw down the house batteries, the engine can still be started. I never =
use the house batteries individually, but always use them together. I =
wrote this up for November 2005 Mainsheet. If any more recent owners are =
considering the same modification, I'd be happy to email the article to =
you. In the same article I discussed a solar panel I installed to top =
off my batteries when the boat is on my mooring, and the installation of =
a Xantrex Battery Monitor. I do not have a slip and get to use shore =
power about once a year.
=20
Andy Sumberg
"Portland" #231
=20
-------------------------------------------------------------------------=
-----
From: c350ia-admin@catalina350.net =
[mailto:c350ia-admin@catalina350.net] On Behalf Of tjr3c@comcast.net
Sent: Thursday, June 05, 2008 3:31 PM
To: skip7@verizon.net; c350ia@catalina350.net
Subject: Re: [c350ia] [Fwd: battery length]
=20
Skip,
Its a good question and I really don't know the answer but we oftern =
anchor out and we use the head, the refrigerator, anchor light, some =
reading lights, radio, and even some instruments. Never had a problem =
the next day. I recommend you do what the charter fleets do. The =
Moorings recommends that you run the engine on their boats at least two =
hours a day to keep the batteries up. We never did but we did run the =
engine at 1600 RPMs for at least 20-30 minutes everyday in the morning. =
This got us through 7 days/nights without shore power.
Tim
#332
=20
-------------- Original message --------------=20
From: <skip7@verizon.net>=20
> >From: D Malecki=20
> >Date: 2008/06/05 Thu AM 11:40:33 CDT=20
> >To: skip7@verizon.net=20
> >Subject: battery length=20
>=20
> C350 Owners,=20
>=20
> I have responded to this e-mail already but I know there are many =
of you that=20
> are far more knowledgeable than me on this subject.=20
> I know the Maleckis will appreciate any advice anyone can give=20
> dmalecki@prodigy.net=20
> Thanks.=20
>=20
> Skip Penizotto=20
> .=20
> >Hi Skip!=EF=BF=BDWe are taking our 1st long trip with our boat - =
hull #184.=EF=BF=BD We may=20
> have to anchor out acouple of times.=EF=BF=BD My question - do you =
know how long the=20
> bateries hold=EF=BF=BD their charge while running the =
fridg/freezer and head=EF=BF=BDwithout=20
> totally dr! aining them?=EF=BF=BD That's without 110v AC! =
=EF=BF=BDWe do not have an invertor=20
> or a generator.=EF=BF=BDWhen we purchased our boat the dealer said =
4 hours - that=20
> does'nt sound right! =EF=BF=BDPls. =
advise!=EF=BF=BDDot=EF=BF=BDAlso I've called and emailed=20
> Catalina with no luck of a return call.=EF=BF=BD Also tried the =
forum and it never=20
> posted.=EF=BF=BD Thanks!!=20
>=20
> _______________________________________________=20
> c350ia mailing list=20
> c350ia@catalina350.net=20
> http://www.catalina350.net/mailman/listinfo/c350ia=20
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<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Andy,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Apparently the insulation in the =
refrigerator got=20
way better between our hull #169 and your hull #231. There is no =
where in=20
our system that the insulation is close to 3" our is closer to =
1.5". Here=20
in Southern California we experienced about a 90/10 run/off cycle when =
the boat=20
was new. After sealing up the gaps under the counter, adding =
additional=20
insulation under the counter and in the freezer compartment, and ducting =
the hot=20
air away from the compressor we got that down a little bit to more like=20
75/25. Of course that's with the freezer running at about 0F and =
the=20
Fridge at about 40F. I guess if you didn't want to keep it as cold =
it=20
wouldn't use as much power.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>We ended up adding additional House =
Bank Ah's as=20
well as a starting battery. We now have 720Ah in the house bank =
and can go=20
2 days without charging and draw down to 60%. The boss likes to =
live in=20
comfort, so the load includes microwave, coffee pot, TV, computer, =
stereo and=20
lights. We can now live like in a condo...I don't have to nag =
about=20
turning things off... and everyone is happier.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>With regards to charging with the =
engine, I assume=20
that you have upgraded to a higher output alternator with a smart charge =
controller. Ours is stock, and doesn't have much effective=20
capacity...maybe about 35-40Amps effective at 1500 RPM. We use a =
Honda=20
eu2000 which we run about 4hrs a day (starting on day 3) when on the =
hook. =20
I'm jealous that your boat is so much more efficient. If we spent more =
than our=20
one two week extended trip per year on the hook I would get very =
interested in=20
the solar panel idea quickly.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Mike Emery</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>#169</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV=20
style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
<A title=3Dandy@sumberg.com href=3D"mailto:andy@sumberg.com">Andy =
Sumberg</A>=20
</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A =
title=3Dtjr3c@comcast.net=20
href=3D"mailto:tjr3c@comcast.net">tjr3c@comcast.net</A> ; <A=20
title=3Dskip7@verizon.net =
href=3D"mailto:skip7@verizon.net">skip7@verizon.net</A>=20
; <A title=3Dc350ia@catalina350.net=20
href=3D"mailto:c350ia@catalina350.net">c350ia@catalina350.net</A> =
</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, June 05, 2008 =
4:37=20
PM</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> RE: [c350ia] [Fwd: =
battery=20
length]</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV class=3DSection1>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial">Folks,<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">I look at =
the battery=20
time like this. I may be a little off on my=20
assumptions.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">The owners =
manual for=20
the refrigerator states =93=85 figure approximately 5 amps when =
running. The=20
average draw, as the ColdMachine cycles on and off, is 1.8 to 2.4 amps =
for=20
most 4 to 8 cubic ft iceboxes with average (3 inch plus) rigid =
polyurethane=20
foam insulation.=94 <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Figure each =
of our=20
house batteries are 150Ah (I don=92t remember exactly what they are). =
Generally=20
you don=92t want to draw down a house battery below 50%. Therefore one =
battery=20
could easily deliver 75Ah which would run the refrigerator (cycling on =
and off=20
at 50%) for <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">75 Amp =
Hours/ 2.5=20
Amps =3D 30 hours<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Few items =
draw as=20
much as the refrigerator (excluding AC which should not be used away =
from=20
shore power), but you would still have to adjust some, particularly =
for=20
lights. If you ran the house for 12 hours on one battery and then ran =
it for=20
another 12 hours on the other battery and then ran the engine once =
every 24=20
hours for an hour or two, you should be =
ok.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">One of the =
first=20
modifications I made to my boat was to put in a separate dedicated =
engine=20
start battery. This way, no matter how much I draw down the house =
batteries,=20
the engine can still be started. I never use the house batteries =
individually,=20
but always use them together. I wrote this up for November 2005 =
Mainsheet. If=20
any more recent owners are considering the same modification, I=92d be =
happy to=20
email the article to you. In the same article I discussed a solar =
panel I=20
installed to top off my batteries when the boat is on my mooring, and =
the=20
installation of a Xantrex Battery Monitor. I do not have a slip and =
get to use=20
shore power about once a year.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Andy=20
Sumberg<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial">=93<st1:City=20
w:st=3D"on"><st1:place w:st=3D"on">Portland</st1:place></st1:City>=94=20
#231<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<DIV>
<DIV class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"TEXT-ALIGN: center" =
align=3Dcenter><FONT=20
face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt">
<HR tabIndex=3D-1 align=3Dcenter width=3D"100%" SIZE=3D2>
</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><B><FONT face=3DTahoma size=3D2><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Tahoma">From:</SPAN></FONT></B><FONT=20
face=3DTahoma size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Tahoma">=20
c350ia-admin@catalina350.net [mailto:c350ia-admin@catalina350.net] =
<B><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">On Behalf Of=20
</SPAN></B>tjr3c@comcast.net<BR><B><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B> Thursday, June 05, 2008 =
3:31=20
PM<BR><B><SPAN style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B> =
skip7@verizon.net;=20
c350ia@catalina350.net<BR><B><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B> Re: [c350ia] [Fwd: =
battery=20
length]</SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<DIV>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt">Skip,<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt">Its a good question and I really don't =
know the=20
answer but we oftern anchor out and we use the head, the refrigerator, =
anchor=20
light, some reading lights, radio, and even some instruments. =
Never had=20
a problem the next day. I recommend you do what the charter =
fleets=20
do. The Moorings recommends that you run the engine on their =
boats at=20
least two hours a day to keep the batteries up. We never did but =
we did=20
run the engine at 1600 RPMs for at least 20-30 minutes everyday in the =
morning. This got us through 7 days/nights without shore=20
power.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt">Tim<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt">#332<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: =
medium none; MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; PADDING-LEFT: 4pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt; =
PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; MARGIN-LEFT: 3.75pt; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 1.5pt =
solid; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none">
<P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt">-------------- Original message =
--------------=20
<BR>From: <skip7@verizon.net> <BR><BR>> >From: D Malecki =
<BR><DMALECKI@PRODIGY.NET>> >Date: 2008/06/05 Thu AM 11:40:33 =
CDT=20
<BR>> >To: skip7@verizon.net <BR>> >Subject: battery =
length=20
<BR>> <BR>> C350 Owners, <BR>> <BR>> I have responded to =
this=20
e-mail already but I know there are many of you that <BR>> are =
far more=20
knowledgeable than me on this subject. <BR>> I know the Maleckis =
will=20
appreciate any advice anyone can give <BR>> dmalecki@prodigy.net =
<BR>>=20
Thanks. <BR>> <BR>> Skip Penizotto <BR>> . <BR>> >Hi=20
Skip!=EF=BF=BDWe are taking our 1st long trip with our boat - hull =
#184.=EF=BF=BD We may=20
<BR>> have to anchor out acouple of times.=EF=BF=BD My question - =
do you know=20
how long the <BR>> bateries hold=EF=BF=BD their charge while =
running the=20
fridg/freezer and head=EF=BF=BDwithout <BR>> totally dr! aining =
them?=EF=BF=BD That's=20
without 110v AC! =EF=BF=BDWe do not have an invertor <BR>> or a=20
generator.=EF=BF=BDWhen we purchased our boat the dealer said 4 =
hours - that=20
<BR>> does'nt sound right! =EF=BF=BDPls. =
advise!=EF=BF=BDDot=EF=BF=BDAlso I've called and=20
emailed <BR>> Catalina with no luck of a return call.=EF=BF=BD =
Also tried the=20
forum and it never <BR>> posted.=EF=BF=BD Thanks!! <BR>> =
<BR>>=20
_______________________________________________ <BR>> c350ia =
mailing list=20
<BR>> c350ia@catalina350.net <BR>>=20
http://www.catalina350.net/mailman/listinfo/c350ia=20
=
<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTM=
L>
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