[c350ia] [Fwd: battery length]

Sun, 08 Jun 2008 19:08:25 -0400

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C8C99B.07EF8270
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Andy, Mike, KSE, Tim, and All,

=20

=20

We need to realize that all boats are different, even ones of the same =
make
and model. The greatest underlying factor affecting batteries =
performance is
their age and maintenance. Older batteries will not charge as well and =
also
will not take a load as well. My 350 Mark II has batteries that are less
than a year old and one battery can take the refrigerator for 3 to 4 =
days
without going below 50%. I know, I accidently left the boat one day and
forgot to turn the charger on. My boat is at a slip and we run the =
fridge
all the time.

=20

Having said that, each owner needs to experiment with battery usage and =
try
to conserve as much as possible. When we are at anchor, I will run off =
one
battery until morning and then switch to the other. Never have I had a
battery go even near 50%. One of you spoke about doing a search about
batteries on the net. I have done this there is a wealth of info out =
there,
try searching marine batteries and also about discharge and capacities. =
My
research on the net about this found that you must also do a battery =
voltage
check while the battery is not under load, this would necessitate =
switching
batteries to check if you are near 50% or not.

=20

I have replaced the anchor light with an LED bulb, as this is a great =
draw
item while on the hook. Also replace at least a few of the bulbs in the
cabin with LED=92s, not reading lights though, they are not great to =
read by.
I also found some AA battery operated LED lights at Sam=92s Club that we
placed throughout the boat. They are Sylvania Golden Dragon cabinet =
lights I
think, and came in packs of three. Do a search; you will come up with =
them.

=20

Mike, you say you replaced the charger with a XANTREX charger/inverter, =
did
you put it in the same location as the original charger and what model =
did
you buy? Pictures please!!!

=20

Has anyone installed an AC generator? It looks like the Panda is the =
only
one that will fit, we want to do this, but it is pricy. Currently using =
a
Honda EU 2000 that we put in the walk thru while at anchor, it works =
great,
but wont run the air conditioning, we are in Florida. Everyone please be
careful running generators on the bow at anchor as most likely the =
exhaust
will follow the wind and come back in the cockpit or cabin. Carbon =
monoxide
poisoning is a very real possibility. I installed CO detectors in the =
aft
cabin and main cabin, as well as smoke detectors in each cabin.

=20

I am looking forward to anyone=92s thoughts and responses about these =
ideas,
specifically the charger/inverter and generator.

=20

Thanks,

=20

Richard Cattell

350 Mark II # 451

=20

=20

  _____ =20

From: c350ia-admin@catalina350.net [mailto:c350ia-admin@catalina350.net] =
On
Behalf Of KSE
Sent: Friday, June 06, 2008 12:22 AM
To: andy@sumberg.com; tjr3c@comcast.net; c350ia@catalina350.net
Subject: Re: [c350ia] [Fwd: battery length]

=20

Andy,

=20

Yes the additional batteries are under the port salon seat. We have a =
total
of 6 240Ah 6V batteries for the house bank and a Group 27 12V as the
starting battery. 4 of the 6V batteries fit where the original 2 4D
batteries were.

=20

We connect the eu2000 via the 30amp shore power cable with a 15amp =
pigtail
to plug into the generator.  I do have to make a quick control panel
adjustment to my XANTREX charger/inverter which is normally set for =
charging
based on a 120V 30 amp source.  With the generator on the bow sitting on =
a
closed cell foam pad to decouple noise, you can't hear it in the =
cockpit,
although you do hear it below decks...not nearly as loud as the M35B =
though.

=20

We use a XANTREX battery monitor to keep close track of Ah used, percent
remaining, current Amp draw and bank voltage.=20

=20

Mike

----- Original Message -----=20

From: Andy Sumberg <mailto:andy@sumberg.com> =20

To: 'KSE' <mailto:kse@san.rr.com>  ; tjr3c@comcast.net ;
c350ia@catalina350.net=20

Sent: Thursday, June 05, 2008 6:11 PM

Subject: RE: [c350ia] [Fwd: battery length]

=20

Mike,

Great points! I think the duty cycle may be higher than 50% as you =
stated. I
originally planned to upgrade the charging system (100+ Amps) after I
purchased my boat and at the last minute reflected that I may never get =
to
it =96 so I purchased the 75 Amp option from Catalina. As predicted, I =
never
did improve over that. I=92m not sure my boat is much more efficient =
than
yours. I help out the refrigerator by starting each trip with a block or =
two
of ice. When I purchased my boat I also opted for the 3rd water tank =
which
took up the space where Catalina usually places a separate engine start
battery. I assume that your extra batteries are under the port seat?

=20

I=92ve thought about buying a EU2000 for when my cruising increases. How =
is
yours connected?=20

Andy Sumberg #231

=20

=20

  _____ =20

From: KSE [mailto:kse@san.rr.com]=20
Sent: Thursday, June 05, 2008 8:40 PM
To: andy@sumberg.com; tjr3c@comcast.net; skip7@verizon.net;
c350ia@catalina350.net
Subject: Re: [c350ia] [Fwd: battery length]

=20

Andy,

=20

Apparently the insulation in the refrigerator got way better between our
hull #169 and your hull #231.  There is no where in our system that the
insulation is close to 3" our is closer to 1.5".  Here in Southern
California we experienced about a 90/10 run/off cycle when the boat was =
new.
After sealing up the gaps under the counter, adding additional =
insulation
under the counter and in the freezer compartment, and ducting the hot =
air
away from the compressor we got that down a little bit to more like =
75/25.
Of course that's with the freezer running at about 0F and the Fridge at
about 40F.  I guess if you didn't want to keep it as cold it wouldn't =
use as
much power.

=20

We ended up adding additional House Bank Ah's as well as a starting =
battery.
We now have 720Ah in the house bank and can go 2 days without charging =
and
draw down to 60%.  The boss likes to live in comfort, so the load =
includes
microwave, coffee pot, TV, computer, stereo and lights.  We can now live
like in a condo...I don't have to nag about turning things off... and
everyone is happier.

=20

With regards to charging with the engine, I assume that you have =
upgraded to
a higher output alternator with a smart charge controller.  Ours is =
stock,
and doesn't have much effective capacity...maybe about 35-40Amps =
effective
at 1500 RPM.  We use a Honda eu2000 which we run about 4hrs a day =
(starting
on day 3) when on the hook.  I'm jealous that your boat is so much more
efficient. If we spent more than our one two week extended trip per year =
on
the hook I would get very interested in the solar panel idea quickly.

=20

Mike Emery

#169

----- Original Message -----=20

From: Andy Sumberg <mailto:andy@sumberg.com> =20

To: tjr3c@comcast.net ; skip7@verizon.net ; c350ia@catalina350.net=20

Sent: Thursday, June 05, 2008 4:37 PM

Subject: RE: [c350ia] [Fwd: battery length]

=20

Folks,

I look at the battery time like this. I may be a little off on my
assumptions.

The owners manual for the refrigerator states =93=85 figure =
approximately 5 amps
when running. The average draw, as the ColdMachine cycles on and off, is =
1.8
to 2.4 amps for most 4 to 8 cubic ft iceboxes with average (3 inch plus)
rigid polyurethane foam insulation.=94=20

Figure each of our house batteries are 150Ah (I don=92t remember exactly =
what
they are). Generally you don=92t want to draw down a house battery below =
50%.
Therefore one battery could easily deliver 75Ah which would run the
refrigerator (cycling on and off at 50%) for=20

=20

75 Amp Hours/ 2.5 Amps =3D 30 hours

=20

Few items draw as much as the refrigerator (excluding AC which should =
not be
used away from shore power), but you would still have to adjust some,
particularly for lights. If you ran the house for 12 hours on one =
battery
and then ran it for another 12 hours on the other battery and then ran =
the
engine once every 24 hours for an hour or two, you should be ok.

=20

One of the first modifications I made to my boat was to put in a =
separate
dedicated engine start battery. This way, no matter how much I draw down =
the
house batteries, the engine can still be started. I never use the house
batteries individually, but always use them together. I wrote this up =
for
November 2005 Mainsheet. If any more recent owners are considering the =
same
modification, I=92d be happy to email the article to you. In the same =
article
I discussed a solar panel I installed to top off my batteries when the =
boat
is on my mooring, and the installation of a Xantrex Battery Monitor. I =
do
not have a slip and get to use shore power about once a year.

=20

Andy Sumberg

=93Portland=94 #231

=20

  _____ =20

From: c350ia-admin@catalina350.net [mailto:c350ia-admin@catalina350.net] =
On
Behalf Of tjr3c@comcast.net
Sent: Thursday, June 05, 2008 3:31 PM
To: skip7@verizon.net; c350ia@catalina350.net
Subject: Re: [c350ia] [Fwd: battery length]

=20

Skip,

Its a good question and I really don't know the answer but we oftern =
anchor
out and we use the head, the refrigerator, anchor light, some reading
lights, radio, and even some instruments.  Never had a problem the next =
day.
I recommend you do what the charter fleets do.  The Moorings recommends =
that
you run the engine on their boats at least two hours a day to keep the
batteries up.  We never did but we did run the engine at 1600 RPMs for =
at
least 20-30 minutes everyday in the morning.  This got us through 7
days/nights without shore power.

Tim

#332

=20

-------------- Original message --------------=20
From: <skip7@verizon.net>=20

> >From: D Malecki=20
> >Date: 2008/06/05 Thu AM 11:40:33 CDT=20
> >To: skip7@verizon.net=20
> >Subject: battery length=20
>=20
> C350 Owners,=20
>=20
> I have responded to this e-mail already but I know there are many of =
you
that=20
> are far more knowledgeable than me on this subject.=20
> I know the Maleckis will appreciate any advice anyone can give=20
> dmalecki@prodigy.net=20
> Thanks.=20
>=20
> Skip Penizotto=20
> .=20
> >Hi Skip!=EF=BF=BDWe are taking our 1st long trip with our boat - hull =
#184.=EF=BF=BD
We may=20
> have to anchor out acouple of times.=EF=BF=BD My question - do you =
know how long
the=20
> bateries hold=EF=BF=BD their charge while running the fridg/freezer =
and
head=EF=BF=BDwithout=20
> totally dr! aining them?=EF=BF=BD That's without 110v AC! =EF=BF=BDWe =
do not have an
invertor=20
> or a generator.=EF=BF=BDWhen we purchased our boat the dealer said 4 =
hours -
that=20
> does'nt sound right! =EF=BF=BDPls. advise!=EF=BF=BDDot=EF=BF=BDAlso =
I've called and emailed=20
> Catalina with no luck of a return call.=EF=BF=BD Also tried the forum =
and it
never=20
> posted.=EF=BF=BD Thanks!!=20
>=20
> _______________________________________________=20
> c350ia mailing list=20
> c350ia@catalina350.net=20
> http://www.catalina350.net/mailman/listinfo/c350ia=20

------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C8C99B.07EF8270
Content-Type: text/html;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<html xmlns:v=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" =
xmlns:o=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" =
xmlns:w=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" =
xmlns:st1=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" =
xmlns=3D"http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40">

<head>
<meta http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Diso-8859-1">
<meta name=3DGenerator content=3D"Microsoft Word 11 (filtered medium)">
<!--[if !mso]>
<style>
v\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
o\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
w\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
.shape {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
</style>
<![endif]--><o:SmartTagType
 namespaceuri=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" =
name=3D"State"/>
<o:SmartTagType =
namespaceuri=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags"
 name=3D"City"/>
<o:SmartTagType =
namespaceuri=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags"
 name=3D"place"/>
<o:SmartTagType =
namespaceuri=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags"
 name=3D"PersonName"/>
<!--[if !mso]>
<style>
st1\:*{behavior:url(#default#ieooui) }
</style>
<![endif]-->
<style>
<!--
 /* Font Definitions */
 @font-face
	{font-family:Tahoma;
	panose-1:2 11 6 4 3 5 4 4 2 4;}
 /* Style Definitions */
 p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal
	{margin:0in;
	margin-bottom:.0001pt;
	font-size:12.0pt;
	font-family:"Times New Roman";}
a:link, span.MsoHyperlink
	{color:blue;
	text-decoration:underline;}
a:visited, span.MsoHyperlinkFollowed
	{color:purple;
	text-decoration:underline;}
span.EmailStyle17
	{mso-style-type:personal;
	font-family:Arial;
	color:navy;}
span.EmailStyle18
	{mso-style-type:personal;
	font-family:Arial;
	color:navy;}
span.EmailStyle19
	{mso-style-type:personal-reply;
	font-family:Arial;
	color:navy;}
@page Section1
	{size:8.5in 11.0in;
	margin:1.0in 1.25in 1.0in 1.25in;}
div.Section1
	{page:Section1;}
-->
</style>
<!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
 <o:shapedefaults v:ext=3D"edit" spidmax=3D"1026" />
</xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
 <o:shapelayout v:ext=3D"edit">
  <o:idmap v:ext=3D"edit" data=3D"1" />
 </o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]-->
</head>

<body bgcolor=3Dwhite lang=3DEN-US link=3Dblue vlink=3Dpurple>

<div class=3DSection1>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Andy, Mike, KSE, Tim, and =
All,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

We need to realize that all boats =
are
different, even ones of the same make and model. The greatest underlying =
factor
affecting batteries performance is their age and maintenance. Older =
batteries
will not charge as well and also will not take a load as well. My 350 =
Mark II has
batteries that are less than a year old and one battery can take the
refrigerator for 3 to 4 days without going below 50%. I know, I =
accidently left
the boat one day and forgot to turn the charger on. My boat is at a slip =
and we
run the fridge all the time.<o:p></o:p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

Having said that, each owner needs =
to
experiment with battery usage and try to conserve as much as possible. =
When we
are at anchor, I will run off one battery until morning and then switch =
to the other.
Never have I had a battery go even near 50%. One of you spoke about =
doing a
search about batteries on the net. I have done this there is a wealth of =
info
out there, try searching marine batteries and also about discharge and
capacities. My research on the net about this found that you must also =
do a
battery voltage check while the battery is not under load, this would =
necessitate
switching batteries to check if you are near 50% or =
not.<o:p></o:p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

I have replaced the anchor light =
with an
LED bulb, as this is a great draw item while on the hook. Also replace =
at least
a few of the bulbs in the cabin with LED&#8217;s, not reading lights =
though,
they are not great to read by. I also found some AA battery operated LED =
lights
at Sam&#8217;s Club that we placed throughout the boat. They are =
Sylvania Golden
Dragon cabinet lights I think, and came in packs of three. Do a search; =
you
will come up with them.<o:p></o:p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

Mike, you say you replaced the =
charger
with a XANTREX charger/inverter, did you put it in the same location as =
the
original charger and what model did you buy? Pictures =
please!!!<o:p></o:p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

Has anyone installed an AC =
generator? It
looks like the Panda is the only one that will fit, we want to do this, =
but it
is pricy. Currently using a Honda EU 2000 that we put in the walk thru =
while at
anchor, it works great, but wont run the air conditioning, we are in =
<st1:State
w:st=3D"on"><st1:place =
w:st=3D"on">Florida</st1:place></st1:State>. Everyone please be careful running generators on =
the bow
at anchor as most likely the exhaust will follow the wind and come back =
in the
cockpit or cabin. Carbon monoxide poisoning is a very real possibility. =
I
installed CO detectors in the aft cabin and main cabin, as well as smoke
detectors in each cabin.<o:p></o:p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3D"#333399" face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:#333399'><o:p>&nbsp;</o=
:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3D"#333399" face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:#333399'>I am looking =
forward
to anyone&#8217;s thoughts and responses about these ideas, specifically =
the
charger/inverter and generator.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3D"#333399" face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:#333399'><o:p>&nbsp;</o=
:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3D"#333399" face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:#333399'>Thanks,<o:p></=
o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3D"#333399" face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:#333399'><o:p>&nbsp;</o=
:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3D"#333399" face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:#333399'>Richard =
Cattell<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3D"#333399" face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:#333399'>350 Mark II # =
451<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3D"#333399" face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:#333399'><o:p>&nbsp;</o=
:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<div>

<div class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dcenter style=3D'text-align:center'><font =
size=3D3
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>

<hr size=3D2 width=3D"100%" align=3Dcenter tabindex=3D-1>

</span></font></div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><b><font size=3D2 face=3DTahoma><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font =
size=3D2
face=3DTahoma><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>
c350ia-admin@catalina350.net [mailto:c350ia-admin@catalina350.net] =
<b><span
style=3D'font-weight:bold'>On Behalf Of </span></b>KSE<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Friday, June 06, =
2008 12:22
AM<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> andy@sumberg.com;
tjr3c@comcast.net; <st1:PersonName =
w:st=3D"on">c350ia@catalina350.net</st1:PersonName><br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Re: [c350ia] =
[Fwd:
battery length]</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>Andy,</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

Yes the additional batteries are under the port salon =
seat.
We have a total of 6 240Ah 6V batteries for the house bank and a Group =
27 12V
as the starting battery. 4 of the 6V batteries fit where the original 2 =
4D
batteries were.<o:p></o:p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>We connect the&nbsp;eu2000 via the 30amp shore power =
cable
with a 15amp pigtail to plug into the generator.&nbsp; I do have to make =
a
quick control panel adjustment to my XANTREX charger/inverter which is =
normally
set for charging based on a 120V 30 amp source.&nbsp; With the generator =
on the
bow sitting on a closed cell foam pad to decouple noise, you can't hear =
it in
the cockpit, although you do hear it below decks...not nearly as loud as =
the
M35B though.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

We use a XANTREX battery monitor to keep close track =
of Ah
used, percent remaining, current Amp draw and bank voltage. =
<o:p></o:p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>Mike</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<blockquote style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid black =
1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt;
margin-left:3.75pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt'=
>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>----- Original Message ----- =
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<div style=3D'font-color:black'>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'background:#E4E4E4'><b><font size=3D2 =
face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;font-weight:bold'>From:</span=
></font></b><font
size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'> <a
href=3D"mailto:andy@sumberg.com" title=3D"andy@sumberg.com">Andy =
Sumberg</a> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><b><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;font-weight:bold'>To:</span></font></b><font size=3D2
face=3DArial><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'> <a
href=3D"mailto:kse@san.rr.com" title=3D"kse@san.rr.com">'KSE'</a> ; <a
href=3D"mailto:tjr3c@comcast.net" =
title=3D"tjr3c@comcast.net">tjr3c@comcast.net</a>
; <a href=3D"mailto:c350ia@catalina350.net" =
title=3D"c350ia@catalina350.net">c350ia@catalina350.net</a>
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><b><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></font></b><font =
size=3D2
face=3DArial><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'> =
Thursday, June 05,
2008 6:11 PM<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><b><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></font></b><font =
size=3D2
face=3DArial><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'> RE: =
[c350ia] [Fwd:
battery length]<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Mike,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

Great points! I think the duty =
cycle may
be higher than 50% as you stated. I originally planned to upgrade the =
charging
system (100+ Amps) after I purchased my boat and at the last minute =
reflected
that I may never get to it &#8211; so I purchased the 75 Amp option from =
Catalina.
As predicted, I never did improve over that. I&#8217;m not sure my boat =
is much
more efficient than yours. I help out the refrigerator by starting each =
trip
with a block or two of ice. When I purchased my boat I also opted for =
the 3rd
water tank which took up the space where Catalina usually places a =
separate
engine start battery. I assume that your extra batteries are under the =
port
seat?<o:p></o:p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

I&#8217;ve thought about buying a =
EU2000
for when my cruising increases. How is yours connected? =
<o:p></o:p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Andy Sumberg =
#231<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<div>

<div class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dcenter style=3D'text-align:center'><font =
size=3D3
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>

<hr size=3D2 width=3D"100%" align=3Dcenter tabIndex=3D-1>

</span></font></div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><b><font size=3D2 face=3DTahoma><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font =
size=3D2
face=3DTahoma><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'> KSE
[mailto:kse@san.rr.com] <br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Thursday, June 05, =
2008 8:40
PM<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> <st1:PersonName =
w:st=3D"on">andy@sumberg.com</st1:PersonName>;
tjr3c@comcast.net; skip7@verizon.net; <st1:PersonName =
w:st=3D"on">c350ia@catalina350.net</st1:PersonName><br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Re: [c350ia] =
[Fwd:
battery length]</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>Andy,</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>Apparently the insulation in the refrigerator got way =
better
between our hull #169 and your hull #231.&nbsp; There is no where in our =
system
that the insulation is close to 3&quot; our is closer to =
1.5&quot;.&nbsp; Here
in <st1:place w:st=3D"on">Southern California</st1:place> we experienced =
about a
90/10 run/off cycle when the boat was new.&nbsp; After sealing up the =
gaps
under the counter, adding additional insulation under the counter and in =
the
freezer compartment, and ducting the hot air away from the compressor we =
got
that down a little bit to more like 75/25.&nbsp; Of course that's with =
the
freezer running at about 0F and the Fridge at about 40F.&nbsp; I guess =
if you
didn't want to keep it as cold it wouldn't use as much =
power.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

We ended up adding additional House Bank Ah's as well =
as a
starting battery.&nbsp; We now have 720Ah in the house bank and can go 2 =
days
without charging and draw down to 60%.&nbsp; The boss likes to live in =
comfort,
so the load includes microwave, coffee pot, TV, computer, stereo and
lights.&nbsp; We can now live like in a condo...I don't have to nag =
about turning
things off... and everyone is happier.<o:p></o:p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

With regards to charging with the engine, I assume =
that you
have upgraded to a higher output alternator with a smart charge
controller.&nbsp; Ours is stock, and doesn't have much effective =
capacity...maybe
about 35-40Amps effective at 1500 RPM.&nbsp; We use a Honda eu2000 which =
we run
about 4hrs a day (starting on day 3) when on the hook.&nbsp; I'm jealous =
that
your boat is so much more efficient. If we spent more than our one two =
week extended
trip per year on the hook I would get very interested in the solar panel =
idea
quickly.<o:p></o:p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>Mike Emery</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>#169</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<blockquote style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid black =
1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt;
margin-left:3.75pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt'=
>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>----- Original Message ----- =
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<div style=3D'font-color:black'>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'background:#E4E4E4'><b><font size=3D2 =
face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;font-weight:bold'>From:</span=
></font></b><font
size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'> <a
href=3D"mailto:andy@sumberg.com" title=3D"andy@sumberg.com">Andy =
Sumberg</a> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><b><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;font-weight:bold'>To:</span></font></b><font size=3D2
face=3DArial><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'> <a
href=3D"mailto:tjr3c@comcast.net" =
title=3D"tjr3c@comcast.net">tjr3c@comcast.net</a>
; <a href=3D"mailto:skip7@verizon.net" =
title=3D"skip7@verizon.net">skip7@verizon.net</a>
; <a href=3D"mailto:c350ia@catalina350.net" =
title=3D"c350ia@catalina350.net">c350ia@catalina350.net</a>
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><b><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></font></b><font =
size=3D2
face=3DArial><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'> =
Thursday, June 05,
2008 4:37 PM<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><b><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></font></b><font =
size=3D2
face=3DArial><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'> RE: =
[c350ia] [Fwd:
battery length]<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Folks,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

I look at the battery time like =
this. I
may be a little off on my assumptions.<o:p></o:p>

The owners manual for the =
refrigerator
states &#8220;&#8230; figure approximately 5 amps when running. The =
average
draw, as the ColdMachine cycles on and off, is 1.8 to 2.4 amps for most =
4 to 8
cubic ft iceboxes with average (3 inch plus) rigid polyurethane foam
insulation.&#8221; <o:p></o:p>

Figure each of our house batteries =
are
150Ah (I don&#8217;t remember exactly what they are). Generally you =
don&#8217;t
want to draw down a house battery below 50%. Therefore one battery could =
easily
deliver 75Ah which would run the refrigerator (cycling on and off at =
50%) for <o:p></o:p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>75 Amp Hours/ 2.5 Amps =3D 30 =
hours<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

Few items draw as much as the =
refrigerator
(excluding AC which should not be used away from shore power), but you =
would
still have to adjust some, particularly for lights. If you ran the house =
for 12
hours on one battery and then ran it for another 12 hours on the other =
battery
and then ran the engine once every 24 hours for an hour or two, you =
should be
ok.<o:p></o:p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

One of the first modifications I =
made to
my boat was to put in a separate dedicated engine start battery. This =
way, no
matter how much I draw down the house batteries, the engine can still be
started. I never use the house batteries individually, but always use =
them
together. I wrote this up for November 2005 Mainsheet. If any more =
recent
owners are considering the same modification, I&#8217;d be happy to =
email the
article to you. In the same article I discussed a solar panel I =
installed to
top off my batteries when the boat is on my mooring, and the =
installation of a
Xantrex Battery Monitor. I do not have a slip and get to use shore power =
about
once a year.<o:p></o:p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Andy =
Sumberg<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>&#8220;<st1:place =
w:st=3D"on"><st1:City
 w:st=3D"on">Portland</st1:City></st1:place>&#8221; =
#231<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<div>

<div class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dcenter style=3D'text-align:center'><font =
size=3D3
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>

<hr size=3D2 width=3D"100%" align=3Dcenter tabIndex=3D-1>

</span></font></div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><b><font size=3D2 face=3DTahoma><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font =
size=3D2
face=3DTahoma><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'> =
c350ia-admin@catalina350.net
[mailto:c350ia-admin@catalina350.net] <b><span =
style=3D'font-weight:bold'>On
Behalf Of </span></b>tjr3c@comcast.net<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Thursday, June 05, =
2008 3:31
PM<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> skip7@verizon.net; =
<st1:PersonName
w:st=3D"on">c350ia@catalina350.net</st1:PersonName><br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Re: [c350ia] =
[Fwd:
battery length]</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>Skip,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>Its a good question and&nbsp;I really don't know the answer but =
we
oftern anchor out and we use the head, the refrigerator, anchor light, =
some
reading lights, radio, and even some instruments.&nbsp; Never had a =
problem the
next day.&nbsp; I recommend you do what the charter fleets do.&nbsp; The =
Moorings
recommends that you run the engine on their boats at least two hours a =
day to
keep the batteries up.&nbsp; We never did but we did run the engine at =
1600
RPMs for at least 20-30 minutes everyday in the morning.&nbsp; This got =
us
through 7 days/nights without shore power.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>Tim<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>#332<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<blockquote style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid #1010FF =
1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt;
margin-left:3.75pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>-------------- Original message -------------- <br>
From: &lt;skip7@verizon.net&gt; <br>
<br>
&gt; &gt;From: D Malecki <br>
<DMALECKI@PRODIGY.NET>&gt; &gt;Date: 2008/06/05 Thu AM 11:40:33 CDT <br>
&gt; &gt;To: skip7@verizon.net <br>
&gt; &gt;Subject: battery length <br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; C350 Owners, <br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; I have responded to this e-mail already but I know there are many =
of you
that <br>
&gt; are far more knowledgeable than me on this subject. <br>
&gt; I know the Maleckis will appreciate any advice anyone can give <br>
&gt; dmalecki@prodigy.net <br>
&gt; Thanks. <br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; Skip Penizotto <br>
&gt; . <br>
&gt; &gt;Hi Skip!=EF=BF=BDWe are taking our 1st long trip with our boat =
- hull
#184.=EF=BF=BD We may <br>
&gt; have to anchor out acouple of times.=EF=BF=BD My question - do you =
know how long
the <br>
&gt; bateries hold=EF=BF=BD their charge while running the fridg/freezer =
and
head=EF=BF=BDwithout <br>
&gt; totally dr! aining them?=EF=BF=BD That's without 110v AC! =
=EF=BF=BDWe do not have an
invertor <br>
&gt; or a generator.=EF=BF=BDWhen we purchased our boat the dealer said =
4 hours -
that <br>
&gt; does'nt sound right! =EF=BF=BDPls. advise!=EF=BF=BDDot=EF=BF=BDAlso =
I've called and emailed <br>
&gt; Catalina with no luck of a return call.=EF=BF=BD Also tried the =
forum and it
never <br>
&gt; posted.=EF=BF=BD Thanks!! <br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; _______________________________________________ <br>
&gt; c350ia mailing list <br>
&gt; <st1:PersonName w:st=3D"on">c350ia@catalina350.net</st1:PersonName> =
<br>
&gt; http://www.catalina350.net/mailman/listinfo/c350ia =
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</blockquote>

</blockquote>

</blockquote>

</div>

</body>

</html>

------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C8C99B.07EF8270--