[c350ia] A question about in mast furling...
palmettomoon350@aol.com
palmettomoon350@aol.com
Fri, 20 Jun 2008 13:01:00 -0400
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All good comments but?at the end of the day the in mast furling is the most easest to take in and above all is the most advantageous when it comes to reefing while under sail.
I'm happy with mine.
Best Regards
Carl Beckmann
Palmetto Moon # 223
-----Original Message-----
From: Andy Sumberg <andy@sumberg.com>
To: jjoc2005@comcast.net; 'Mike Dwyer' <mdwyer3@rochester.rr.com>; c350ia@catalina350.net
Sent: Sun, 15 Jun 2008 11:20 am
Subject: RE: [c350ia] A question about in mast furling...
John,
Good points.
I relieve the pressure on the dutchman lines while sailing by easing the topping lift. So I still do not have to work the cleat fitting on the end of the boom.
If your sailmaker is concerned about chafing during sailing, I don't see that as a problem. Where is the chafing occurring?
If he/she is concerned about chafing while the sail is flaked on the boom, that can be a problem, but there is a solution.?If you tie the main sail on to the boom it is easy for the sail to chafe on the main sheet blocks when the boom moves back and forth. However, if you tie a sail tie through each of the two?eyes where the main sheet blocks fasten to the boom and then go around the sail, the tie?lifts the sail away from the blocks when tightened. This way there is no chafing while the sail is flaked. I did learn this one the hard way.
Lazy jacks are fine, although they do not flake as well as the dutchman. By?using the two techniques described above, I believe the dutchman system to be a little better than lazy jacks. Next time you sail try taking the pressure off the dutchman by easing off on the toping lift. See if you like that. And, for sure, try tying the sails as described above. If that does not work for you, go for the lazy jacks.
?
Andy Sumberg
"Portland" #231
-----Original Message-----
From: jjoc2005@comcast.net [mailto:jjoc2005@comcast.net]
Sent: Sunday, June 15, 2008 10:25 AM
To: andy@sumberg.com; 'Mike Dwyer'; c350ia@catalina350.net
Cc: Andy Sumberg
Subject: RE: [c350ia] A question about in mast furling...
Andy--
?
During my shakedown back in 2003, the dealer indicated to me that the Dutchman system needed to be "eased" (loosened) after the main was up to reduce strain on it and decrease the possibility of chafing on the main from the two Dutchman lines.? So while I understand why you had the slits placed in the sail cover, I still think you need to "contort" yourself, as I always do, to ease the system.? Perhaps you do this, but it isn't clear from your message.
?
BTW, I've had work done on both of my sails by a local sailmaker.? He's done work on the main twice and each time has tried to sell?me on lazy jacks or a Doyle system; he is not a big fan of the Dutchman.? His primary issue is chafing of the sails.?
?
I was just out over the weekend on Delaware Bay and the Atlantic Ocean with a close friend who just took possession of a custom-built boat.? He has the lazy jacks system and it seems to be pretty simple.? So I may consider converting in the future.
?
John O'Connell
"Second Wind" - Hull 84
Annapolis
?
?
?
-------------- Original message --------------
From: "Andy Sumberg" <andy@sumberg.com>
> Mike,
> This past winter I had two slits placed in the sail cover at the locations
> of the Dutchman monofilament lines. The result, I no longer have to raise
> and lower the Dutchman lines every time I go out. What a savings in body
> contortion! I now do my stretching exercises at the gym.
>
> Andy Sumberg
> #231 "Portland"
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: c350ia-admin@catalina350.net [mailto:c350ia-admin@catalina350.net] On
> Behalf Of Mike Dwyer
> Sent: Tuesday, June 10, 2008 1:25 PM
> To: c350ia@catalina350.net
> Subject: RE: [c350ia] A question about in mast furling...
>
> I did sail my Cat 350 with both in mast and full batten mains.
>
> Part of my de al on buying hull 149 is the dealer would replace the in mast
> furling that came with the boat with a full batten main mast. I had 4 weeks
> with the in mast and now 4 years with the full batten main.
>
> No question the full batten main sails better, about 20% more sail area and
> a better controlled shape. Based on wind conditions, I would say a .2-.5KT
> difference in typical 10-15 knot winds I get on Lake Ontario.
>
> Of course it is more difficult to manage, I am standing on the cockpit table
> every time I put the sail up and take it down to adjust the Dutchman system
> and put on the sail cover. The in mast furling was easy to use and seemed to
> work well as long as you were pointing upwind when you wound it up.
>
> I am happy with my decision (plus the free under deck autopilot I got in
> exchange for the $3000 in mast furling price at the time)
>
> Mike < BR>> ; C350 #149
>
> Mike Dwyer
> Day 585-475-2698
> Home 585-787-9686
> -----Original Message-----
> From: c350ia-admin@catalina350.net [mailto:c350ia-admin@catalina350.net] On
> Behalf Of Andy Sumberg
> Sent: Monday, June 09, 2008 11:28 PM
> To: 'Al Szymanski'; c350ia@catalina350.net
> Subject: RE: [c350ia] A question about in mast furling...
>
> All,
> I've enjoyed all the discussion about how well the in-mast furling
> system works. Call me old fashion, I like the shape (and performance) of
> the regular main. To be honest, I've never sailed a 350 with in-mast
> furling so it is hard to compare. I figure when I can no longer raise
> the main by hand I'll install an electric winch. Reefing with the
> regular main seems to be more work, but can still be done from the
> cockpit. I do have to go forward to attach/detach the halyard and put
> o n/take off the sail cover. I don't have to go forward while under way.
>
> Andy Sumberg
> #231 "Portland"
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: c350ia-admin@catalina350.net [mailto:c350ia-admin@catalina350.net]
> On Behalf Of Ilene Brandon
> Sent: Sunday, June 08, 2008 9:16 PM
> To: 'Al Szymanski'; c350ia@catalina350.net
> Subject: RE: [c350ia] A question about in mast furling...
>
>
> Hi Al,
>
> We will never buy a boat without one. I was the resistant one. We also
> have an electric coach top winch, makes life easy.
>
> Fair winds,
>
> Ron & Ilene Brandon
> Cat 350 #139 Ilene
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: c350ia-admin@catalina350.net [mailto:c350ia-admin@catalina350.net]
> On Behalf Of Al Szymanski
> Sent: Sunday, June 08, 2008 7:21 PM
> To: c350ia@catal ina350 .net
> Subject: [c350ia] A question about in mast furling...
>
> Well... time is drawing near. We have accepted an offer on the house,
> thus will be purchasing our dream - a Catalina 350. There's one in
> Seattle right now and with one exception is the boat for us. The
> exception is the in mast furling system. My wife and I have shied
> away from that arrangement for mostly simplicity reasons - thinking
> that the system is "just one more thing to break". Heck.. my current
> vessel has a hank on jib and I use a sextant ! So.. we'd be very
> interested in everyone's observations on the system - I do recall a
> recent post of one that jammed up and would not allow the sail to be
> furled.
> Standing by,
>
> Al Szymanski
> _______________________________________________
> c350ia mailing list
> c350ia@catalina350.net
> http://www.catalina350.net/m ailman /listinfo/c350ia
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> c350ia mailing list
> c350ia@catalina350.net
> http://www.catalina350.net/mailman/listinfo/c350ia
>
> _______________________________________________
> c350ia mailing list
> c350ia@catalina350.net
> http://www.catalina350.net/mailman/listinfo/c350ia
>
> _______________________________________________
> c350ia mailing list
> c350ia@catalina350.net
> http://www.catalina350.net/mailman/listinfo/c350ia
>
> _______________________________________________
> c350ia mailing list
> c350ia@catalina350.net
> http://www.catalina350.net/mailman/listinfo/c350ia
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All good comments but at the end of the day the in mast furling is the most easest to take in and above all is the most advantageous when it comes to reefing while under sail.<br>
I'm happy with mine.<br>
<br>
Best Regards<br>
<br>
Carl Beckmann<br>
Palmetto Moon # 223<br>
<br>
<br>
-----Original Message-----<br>
From: Andy Sumberg <andy@sumberg.com><br>
To: jjoc2005@comcast.net; 'Mike Dwyer' <mdwyer3@rochester.rr.com>; c350ia@catalina350.net<br>
Sent: Sun, 15 Jun 2008 11:20 am<br>
Subject: RE: [c350ia] A question about in mast furling...<br>
<br>
<div id=AOLMsgPart_2_dfeb607a-61dd-4ed7-8b01-9c45f6ddec9e>
<div><SPAN class=625445814-15062008><FONT face="@Arial Unicode MS" size=2>John,</FONT></SPAN></div>
<div><SPAN class=625445814-15062008><FONT face="@Arial Unicode MS" size=2>Good points. </FONT></SPAN></div>
<div><SPAN class=625445814-15062008><FONT face="@Arial Unicode MS" size=2>I relieve the pressure on the dutchman lines while sailing by easing the topping lift. So I still do not have to work the cleat fitting on the end of the boom.</FONT></SPAN></div>
<div><SPAN class=625445814-15062008><FONT face="@Arial Unicode MS" size=2>If your sailmaker is concerned about chafing during sailing, I don't see that as a problem. Where is the chafing occurring?</FONT></SPAN></div>
<div><SPAN class=625445814-15062008><FONT face="@Arial Unicode MS" size=2>If he/she is concerned about chafing while the sail is flaked on the boom, that can be a problem, but there is a solution. If you tie the main sail on to the boom it is easy for the sail to chafe on the main sheet blocks when the boom moves back and forth. However, if you tie a sail tie through each of the two eyes where the main sheet blocks fasten to the boom and then go around the sail, the tie lifts the sail away from the blocks when tightened. This way there is no chafing while the sail is flaked. I did learn this one the hard way.</FONT></SPAN></div>
<div><SPAN class=625445814-15062008><FONT face="@Arial Unicode MS" size=2>Lazy jacks are fine, although they do not flake as well as the dutchman. By using the two techniques described above, I believe the dutchman system to be a little better than lazy jacks. Next time you sail try taking the pressure off the dutchman by easing off on the toping lift. See if you like that. And, for sure, try tying the sails as described above. If that does not work for you, go for the lazy jacks.</FONT></SPAN></div>
<div><SPAN class=625445814-15062008><FONT face="@Arial Unicode MS" size=2></FONT></SPAN> </div>
<div><SPAN class=625445814-15062008><FONT face="@Arial Unicode MS" size=2>Andy Sumberg</FONT></SPAN></div>
<div><SPAN class=625445814-15062008><FONT face="@Arial Unicode MS" size=2>"Portland" #231</FONT></SPAN></div>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr style="MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<div></div>
<div class=OutlookMessageHeader lang=en-us dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Tahoma size=2>-----Original Message-----<br>
<B>From:</B> <A href="mailto:jjoc2005@comcast.net">jjoc2005@comcast.net</A> [<A href="mailto:jjoc2005@comcast.net?">mailto:jjoc2005@comcast.net</A>] <br>
<B>Sent:</B> Sunday, June 15, 2008 10:25 AM<br>
<B>To:</B> <A href="mailto:andy@sumberg.com">andy@sumberg.com</A>; 'Mike Dwyer'; <A href="mailto:c350ia@catalina350.net">c350ia@catalina350.net</A><br>
<B>Cc:</B> Andy Sumberg<br>
<B>Subject:</B> RE: [c350ia] A question about in mast furling...<br>
<br>
</FONT></div>
<div>Andy--</div>
<div> </div>
<div>During my shakedown back in 2003, the dealer indicated to me that the Dutchman system needed to be "eased" (loosened) after the main was up to reduce strain on it and decrease the possibility of chafing on the main from the two Dutchman lines. So while I understand why you had the slits placed in the sail cover, I still think you need to "contort" yourself, as I always do, to ease the system. Perhaps you do this, but it isn't clear from your message.</div>
<div> </div>
<div>BTW, I've had work done on both of my sails by a local sailmaker. He's done work on the main twice and each time has tried to sell me on lazy jacks or a Doyle system; he is not a big fan of the Dutchman. His primary issue is chafing of the sails. </div>
<div> </div>
<div>I was just out over the weekend on Delaware Bay and the Atlantic Ocean with a close friend who just took possession of a custom-built boat. He has the lazy jacks system and it seems to be pretty simple. So I may consider converting in the future.</div>
<div> </div>
<div>John O'Connell</div>
<div>"Second Wind" - Hull 84</div>
<div>Annapolis</div>
<div> </div>
<div> </div>
<div> </div>
<BLOCKQUOTE style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 2px solid">-------------- Original message -------------- <br>
From: "Andy Sumberg" <<A href="mailto:andy@sumberg.com">andy@sumberg.com</A>> <br>
<br>
> Mike, <br>
> This past winter I had two slits placed in the sail cover at the locations <br>
> of the Dutchman monofilament lines. The result, I no longer have to raise <br>
> and lower the Dutchman lines every time I go out. What a savings in body <br>
> contortion! I now do my stretching exercises at the gym. <br>
> <br>
> Andy Sumberg <br>
> #231 "Portland" <br>
> <br>
> -----Original Message----- <br>
> From: <A href="mailto:c350ia-admin@catalina350.net">c350ia-admin@catalina350.net</A> [<A href="mailto:c350ia-admin@catalina350.net?">mailto:c350ia-admin@catalina350.net</A>] On <br>
> Behalf Of Mike Dwyer <br>
> Sent: Tuesday, June 10, 2008 1:25 PM <br>
> To: <A href="mailto:c350ia@catalina350.net">c350ia@catalina350.net</A> <br>
> Subject: RE: [c350ia] A question about in mast furling... <br>
> <br>
> I did sail my Cat 350 with both in mast and full batten mains. <br>
> <br>
> Part of my de al on buying hull 149 is the dealer would replace the in mast <br>
> furling that came with the boat with a full batten main mast. I had 4 weeks <br>
> with the in mast and now 4 years with the full batten main. <br>
> <br>
> No question the full batten main sails better, about 20% more sail area and <br>
> a better controlled shape. Based on wind conditions, I would say a .2-.5KT <br>
> difference in typical 10-15 knot winds I get on Lake Ontario. <br>
> <br>
> Of course it is more difficult to manage, I am standing on the cockpit table <br>
> every time I put the sail up and take it down to adjust the Dutchman system <br>
> and put on the sail cover. The in mast furling was easy to use and seemed to <br>
> work well as long as you were pointing upwind when you wound it up. <br>
> <br>
> I am happy with my decision (plus the free under deck autopilot I got in <br>
> exchange for the $3000 in mast furling price at the time) <br>
> <br>
> Mike < BR>> ; C350 #149 <br>
> <br>
> Mike Dwyer <br>
> Day 585-475-2698 <br>
> Home 585-787-9686 <br>
> -----Original Message----- <br>
> From: <A href="mailto:c350ia-admin@catalina350.net">c350ia-admin@catalina350.net</A> [<A href="mailto:c350ia-admin@catalina350.net?">mailto:c350ia-admin@catalina350.net</A>] On <br>
> Behalf Of Andy Sumberg <br>
> Sent: Monday, June 09, 2008 11:28 PM <br>
> To: 'Al Szymanski'; <A href="mailto:c350ia@catalina350.net">c350ia@catalina350.net</A> <br>
> Subject: RE: [c350ia] A question about in mast furling... <br>
> <br>
> All, <br>
> I've enjoyed all the discussion about how well the in-mast furling <br>
> system works. Call me old fashion, I like the shape (and performance) of <br>
> the regular main. To be honest, I've never sailed a 350 with in-mast <br>
> furling so it is hard to compare. I figure when I can no longer raise <br>
> the main by hand I'll install an electric winch. Reefing with the <br>
> regular main seems to be more work, but can still be done from the <br>
> cockpit. I do have to go forward to attach/detach the halyard and put <br>
> o n/take off the sail cover. I don't have to go forward while under way. <br>
> <br>
> Andy Sumberg <br>
> #231 "Portland" <br>
> <br>
> <br>
> <br>
> -----Original Message----- <br>
> From: <A href="mailto:c350ia-admin@catalina350.net">c350ia-admin@catalina350.net</A> [<A href="mailto:c350ia-admin@catalina350.net?">mailto:c350ia-admin@catalina350.net</A>] <br>
> On Behalf Of Ilene Brandon <br>
> Sent: Sunday, June 08, 2008 9:16 PM <br>
> To: 'Al Szymanski'; <A href="mailto:c350ia@catalina350.net">c350ia@catalina350.net</A> <br>
> Subject: RE: [c350ia] A question about in mast furling... <br>
> <br>
> <br>
> Hi Al, <br>
> <br>
> We will never buy a boat without one. I was the resistant one. We also <br>
> have an electric coach top winch, makes life easy. <br>
> <br>
> Fair winds, <br>
> <br>
> Ron & Ilene Brandon <br>
> Cat 350 #139 Ilene <br>
> <br>
> <br>
> -----Original Message----- <br>
> From: <A href="mailto:c350ia-admin@catalina350.net">c350ia-admin@catalina350.net</A> [<A href="mailto:c350ia-admin@catalina350.net?">mailto:c350ia-admin@catalina350.net</A>] <br>
> On Behalf Of Al Szymanski <br>
> Sent: Sunday, June 08, 2008 7:21 PM <br>
> To: c350ia@catal ina350 .net <br>
> Subject: [c350ia] A question about in mast furling... <br>
> <br>
> Well... time is drawing near. We have accepted an offer on the house, <br>
> thus will be purchasing our dream - a Catalina 350. There's one in <br>
> Seattle right now and with one exception is the boat for us. The <br>
> exception is the in mast furling system. My wife and I have shied <br>
> away from that arrangement for mostly simplicity reasons - thinking <br>
> that the system is "just one more thing to break". Heck.. my current <br>
> vessel has a hank on jib and I use a sextant ! So.. we'd be very <br>
> interested in everyone's observations on the system - I do recall a <br>
> recent post of one that jammed up and would not allow the sail to be <br>
> furled. <br>
> Standing by, <br>
> <br>
> Al Szymanski <br>
> _______________________________________________ <br>
> c350ia mailing list <br>
> <A href="mailto:c350ia@catalina350.net">c350ia@catalina350.net</A> <br>
> <A href="http://www.catalina350.net/m" target=_blank>http://www.catalina350.net/m</A> ailman /listinfo/c350ia <br>
> <br>
> <br>
> _______________________________________________ <br>
> c350ia mailing list <br>
> <A href="mailto:c350ia@catalina350.net">c350ia@catalina350.net</A> <br>
> <A href="http://www.catalina350.net/mailman/listinfo/c350ia" target=_blank>http://www.catalina350.net/mailman/listinfo/c350ia</A> <br>
> <br>
> _______________________________________________ <br>
> c350ia mailing list <br>
> <A href="mailto:c350ia@catalina350.net">c350ia@catalina350.net</A> <br>
> <A href="http://www.catalina350.net/mailman/listinfo/c350ia" target=_blank>http://www.catalina350.net/mailman/listinfo/c350ia</A> <br>
> <br>
> _______________________________________________ <br>
> c350ia mailing list <br>
> <A href="mailto:c350ia@catalina350.net">c350ia@catalina350.net</A> <br>
> <A href="http://www.catalina350.net/mailman/listinfo/c350ia" target=_blank>http://www.catalina350.net/mailman/listinfo/c350ia</A> <br>
> <br>
> _______________________________________________ <br>
> c350ia mailing list <br>
> <A href="mailto:c350ia@catalina350.net">c350ia@catalina350.net</A> <br>
> <A href="http://www.catalina350.net/mailman/listinfo/c350ia" target=_blank>http://www.catalina350.net/mailman/listinfo/c350ia</A> </BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></div>
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